AR.Drone 1.0 + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Mirumod, Macgyver, hull, cam, propeller, leg, cross, ball bearing mods... etc.
User avatar
tubster
Ready for take off
Posts: 22
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 21:08
Location: Örebro, Sweden

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by tubster » 27 Mar 2011, 17:43

GeorgGGG wrote:
tubster wrote:To sum up, the drone will hear your AP PERFECTLY (due to the increased output power of the AP) but will the AP still hear and receive packets from the Drone (that still has got the same output power and lousy antenna?).

- High output power on AP causes the AP to have less receiving capabilities.
- High output power on AP causes the drone to hear AP very good. But does the AP hear the drone as good? Most likely no.
IF High output power on AP THEN Less repetition of the crosstalk ;
IF Less repetition of the crosstalk THEN More time for listening ;
IF More time for listening and sensitive chipset and antenna THEN Greater chance of successful communication ;

PS:Badly hears mostly Drone, because there purring motors.
Uhuhm ...

Crosstalk, not sure that you get ACKs from Drone on control input .. do you?

Second thought ... Yes, the "controls" are AP --> Drone (most important, of course)...
But, the comms are on the IP-level (UDP), talking about 802.11b/g the link protocol is still two way comms .... meaning that if you loses the link to the drone due to that the AP cannot hear the drone, then well ... back to square one...

Well, if the "PowerAP N Ultra" is made for 1W then the filters and RX frontend must be designed to cope with all the IM products.

Looking forward to hear if you are able to navigate the drone longer if you half the TX power, give it a try and please report. :) I am almost certain that you will have at least a extended range of 20% if you half the TX power of your AP.

Keep up the good work GGG!

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 27 Mar 2011, 20:31

Monitoring video performance may give an indication of how well the AP 'hears' the ardrone.

User avatar
opie
Up and hovering
Posts: 110
Joined: 19 Jan 2011, 19:55
Location: Chicago

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by opie » 02 Apr 2011, 07:21

Got my Power APN yesterday and am very pleased with its performance. The AirView spectrum analysis, antenna alignment, site survey, and other tools that are built into it are almost an embarassment of riches. The company, Ubiquity, has a wealth of information on its site for setting up WiFi communication. I'm getting a much stronger signal and much faster transmission rates indoors than I got with my Cisco-Linksys router. Hope to test it outside for distance with the drone soon just to compare results.

Thanks again GeorgGGG!

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 05 Apr 2011, 01:06

Picostation AP looks interesting with its compact size and 1000mW power output. Wonder if anybody tried it.

http://www.ubnt.com/picostation

chemnut842
Battery Charged
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 02:29

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by chemnut842 » 05 Apr 2011, 14:00

If you are concerned about the transmit signal of the drone, is it possible to fix a range expander to the drone? I like the idea of a larger antenna but modification of the internal computer seems like a stretch for my capabilities. I thought that if you bought one that works on 12V then you can just tap into your lipo for power. Also if you bought the smallest one available and removed the plastic case (strip it down to its circuit board) Then attach the circuit board to the inside of the shell, mounting the antenna externally, you may be able to save a lot of weight like this.

Any thoughts on how to get the drone wifi to talk to a signal expander? how would you do this without the signal expander assigning itself to the router?

This is what I mean by signal expander...

http://www.mobilepc.com/Electronics/Cis ... der-WRE54G" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 06 Apr 2011, 00:27

If you are concerned about the transmit signal of the drone, is it possible to fix a range expander to the drone? I like the idea of a larger antenna but modification of the internal computer seems like a stretch for my capabilities. I thought that if you bought one that works on 12V then you can just tap into your lipo for power. Also if you bought the smallest one available and removed the plastic case (strip it down to its circuit board) Then attach the circuit board to the inside of the shell, mounting the antenna externally, you may be able to save a lot of weight like this.

Any thoughts on how to get the drone wifi to talk to a signal expander? how would you do this without the signal expander assigning itself to the router?
Sorry my post was not clear. The idea is not to mount anything on the ardrone itself but simply put an access point (AP) somewhere between the ardrone and the iphone as described in this post http://www.ardrone-flyers.com/forum/vie ... ?f=8&t=807

Both the ardrone and the iphone would "talk" to each other through the AP and assuming the AP has better antenna and higher power, the flying range would thus increased. For maximum range, the AP should be located on a high place, say, on top of a hill, between the iphone and the ardrone.

Your suggestion regarding a range extender (or repeater) is very interesting and worth a test. If you are going through the AP already, then I assume you can just put the range extender somewhere in the flying area to further extend the flying range. However, going through a range extender may cause delay in control commands reaching the ardrone. Don't know what impact this would have in terms of controlling the ardrone. Also, since the range extender job is just to repeat the signals from the AP, we don't know what would happen if the ardrone is within "hearing" range of both the AP and the range extender. That is, the ardrone would hear the same control commands twice - once from the AP and the second from the range extender. I don't know enough about the inner working details of AP and range extender (or repeater) to guess whether this setup would work or not.

I'm very much interested in seeing someone who have the resources to test this arrangement. Any takers or comments from wireless network experts?

User avatar
opie
Up and hovering
Posts: 110
Joined: 19 Jan 2011, 19:55
Location: Chicago

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by opie » 06 Apr 2011, 06:19

Any thoughts on how to get the drone wifi to talk to a signal expander? how would you do this without the signal expander assigning itself to the router?
Don't know that this has gone anywhere, but previous comments I've seen concerned connecting an extender directly to the drone and surmised it might be difficult or risky.

the antennas on the drone are strips right on the nav board. If you remove the plastic underside covering you can fairly easily see them, aptly labeled antenna 1 and antenna 2.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 93&page=82

there is 2 what look like RF test point label TPRF1 and TPRF2 near the motor connector. From the look of it the center hole is the signal line and the circle around it is ground, can anyone confirm this?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... count=1164

The original posters might have further thoughts about it if you contact them.

chemnut842
Battery Charged
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 02:29

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by chemnut842 » 06 Apr 2011, 14:45

I have ordered the ap router and when it comes in I will test the limits of the video feed in a safe way. I have access to some very large open spaces and will place the router on something high (maybe at most 2-3m) and a second person will watch the video on the ip4 and I will start walking... with the drone in hand.

I saw the antenna wires under the plastic and will look into contacting those people who have already posted. Thanks for those links.

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 07 Apr 2011, 00:36

I have ordered the ap router and when it comes in I will test the limits of the video feed in a safe way. I have access to some very large open spaces and will place the router on something high (maybe at most 2-3m) and a second person will watch the video on the ip4 and I will start walking... with the drone in hand.
Which AP did you ordered - high power or regular consumer model?

Here's how I did my one-person "safe" range test before doing an actual fly range test:

I place the AP on the 2nd floor next to a window, put the ardrone in the car such that the front camera of the ardrone is facing the back so I can see the moving video from the iPhone as I drive. Even though both the iPhone and the ardrone is in the same car, the iPhone is not connected to the ardrone directly but actually it is connected to the ardrone through the AP. I drive away slowly and and note when the iPhone start to beep to warn loosing video or control. Based on this low tech test, I was able to confirm the range is about 300 feet or so. This range is nothing special with using a normal consumer model AP. The other thing I was able to confirm is that the ardrone and the iPhone is able to re-connect back to the AP when they come back in range of the AP.

chemnut842
Battery Charged
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 02:29

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by chemnut842 » 07 Apr 2011, 04:44

The manufacturer is ubiquiti, there was a link posted to it: http://www.wlanparts.com/product/POWERA ... outer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is a good way to do it, but I am not sure what the range of my ip4 is. I suppose I could test both though.

User avatar
opie
Up and hovering
Posts: 110
Joined: 19 Jan 2011, 19:55
Location: Chicago

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by opie » 08 Apr 2011, 01:43

I saw the antenna wires under the plastic and will look into contacting those people who have already posted. Thanks for those links
.

Came across a later post from one of them with pictures of his soldering an extender to the drone's mainboard.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1379551

Brave man!

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 08 Apr 2011, 03:32

Brave man!
Let see if anyone out there brave enough to add an external antenna to the iPhone/iTouch... :D

Seriously, anybody know where the internal WiFi antenna is located inside the iTouch 4G? If we know, we can try to adjust the way we hold the iTouch to avoid covering the antenna. May be we can increase the flying range a bit by having the antenna in the clear.

chemnut842
Battery Charged
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 02:29

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by chemnut842 » 09 Apr 2011, 01:58

I would really like to see some kind of follow up to that mod. He posted the pics back in february but never posted any test results. In my line of work, people do not publish negative results and sometimes I wish they did.... In this case it would be nice to know.... I will try to contact him if possible.

madghost
Ready for take off
Posts: 19
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 18:42

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by madghost » 09 Apr 2011, 02:35

A copy of my post from another tread :
I use a AWUS036H 1 Watt long range usb wireless adapter in Acces Point mode as intermediary for my ipod 4 it s the best wireless G adapter for its sensitivity and high power. Im curently ordering a second one to use as Onboard adapter on the drone to gain even grater range for this summer. This will have arround 1000 meter range with 1 adapter striped of its plastic casing and plugged to the drone usb with rtl8187 drivers loaded and the second adapter in AP mode will be used as relay for the ipod. Full Two-way 1 Watt transmission xD i cant wait to finish this project !!!

Candu
Made it over nextdoor
Posts: 260
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 23:02

Re: AR.Drone + iP4 + PowerAP N Ultra Long Range - 500m+ (TES

Post by Candu » 09 Apr 2011, 03:44

A copy of my post from another tread :
Link is missing. Can you re-post, please?

You probably mentioned in your other post already but which USB port did you use? on a PC running a software AP ?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests