FIX YOUR PROPS... this thread will get you flying right!!!!

Problems of AR Drone 2.0, Freeflight 2, Flight Recorder GPS, Qgroundcontrol... etc.
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FIX YOUR PROPS... this thread will get you flying right!!!!

Post by DBS » 02 Jul 2012, 17:42

i got the home remedy for those props that come warped in the pastic flatpacks from parrot... also seems to work on performance props from VGE

This fix addresses many problems as follows:

*jello/vibration in your video recordings
*won't climb or hold altitude
*drops about six inches every few seconds like clockwork... Like the motors are cutting out for a split second
*wanders around while hovering , won't stay still
*flips are ugly... almost bounces off the ground every time
*drops to the ground when coming to a stop from fast forward motion
*erectile disfunction, hammer toe, anal leakage, foul smelling discharge and diarrhea

i'll try to explain as best i can

first thing to check is the curve of the blade.. it needs the curve to provide lift
it should look like this
Image
if it's flat... you can get the curve back by strapping to a curved surface and heating with a blowdryer on high heat and let cool... a D size Mag-Lite flashlight is perfect... or a 1.5 inch outside diameter pipe... like this
Image

then you wanna get the bow out of the blade and get the pitch right... if your new blades are bowed like this.. you can still get it straight
Image

you need a ruler and some clothes pins and rig yourself up something like this here
Image
two clothespins on each end of the bade... one out at the tip and one about half way to take out the hump in the middle
Image
right on the leading edge of the blade
Image

you only wanna pin down the leading edge of the blade where it slices into the air... if you pin down to far into the blade you will ruin the curve and lessen the pitch... if you just catch that front edge under the clothespin the back edge will pitch up and the angle of attack will take care of itself
Image

get it all pinned down and heat it up with a blowdryer on high heat for 3 to 5 minutes... let it cool to room temp and do it again... you might have to do it a few times to get the plastic to relax in this "good" position... but it works ya'll... i got three sets of blades fixed this way and i'm three for three... it's not like it ain't working on some of them... it even worked on the VGE performance blades... they fly good... they lift heavy batteries no problem... and the "drop altitude every ten seconds" problem goes away... and i had one REALLY BAD set that wouldn't even get 6 inches off the ground... they fly perfect now... PERFECT!!

then just balance them to get rid of vibration and your all new again!!!
Last edited by DBS on 12 Mar 2013, 02:38, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by darwin-t » 02 Jul 2012, 17:48

Very nice! Thank you for sharing.

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by Drone Shop » 02 Jul 2012, 18:00

Have you got 2 different user accounts on here or is this taken from chucks post? its an excellent remedy and does work as i have tried it on an old set i had. great how-to should be a sticky ;-)

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by DBS » 02 Jul 2012, 18:37

Different forum dude... yeah that's me ... b00m on the parrot forum... hey can you explain to my wife about the legend thing... she still thinks i'm goofin around with a stupid Styrofoam toy.... :roll:
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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by Tizzy » 02 Jul 2012, 18:38

Just thinking, wouldn't it be better to straighten first and then do the pitch?

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by DBS » 02 Jul 2012, 19:44

It's the curve you wanna do first... the straightening with the pins at the front edge of the blade sets the pitch... if you do the straightening and pitch first and then curve the blade... it's not the right pitch anymore... it comes out more towards zero pitch and doesn't give enough lift... that's what causes that "drop 3 inches every ten seconds" problem
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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by Tizzy » 02 Jul 2012, 20:01

Got it, will try this out asap. Much thanks for the tips!

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by arlee » 03 Jul 2012, 05:24

DroneBonerStallone wrote:. and the "drop altitude every ten seconds" problem goes away... !
just noticed this statement. I'm am getting this recently, not exactly 10sec, but like 8-12sec, seems to be since updating to 2.1.20 f/w. Happens with original battery. It gradually gets lower and lower until it's just above the floor. Is it a known issue? Any fixes?

Thanks

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by spacep » 03 Jul 2012, 06:43

Great post. I will go look at my props and see if this could explain some of my problems.

Thanks.

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by Drone Shop » 03 Jul 2012, 08:14

im convinced there was a bomboomchuck on here too. oh well. ha ha. posted over on the other side mate.

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by DBS » 03 Jul 2012, 09:14

arlee wrote:
DroneBonerStallone wrote:. and the "drop altitude every ten seconds" problem goes away... !
just noticed this statement. I'm am getting this recently, not exactly 10sec, but like 8-12sec, seems to be since updating to 2.1.20 f/w. Happens with original battery. It gradually gets lower and lower until it's just above the floor. Is it a known issue? Any fixes?

Thanks
Hahaaaaaa... you are in the thread with a complete tutorial on the fix
it is a known issue... (i quoted it and you quoted me quoting it)

.....and the fix is..... keep buying new blades untill a set shows up that doesn't have these problems..... or..... try some clothespins and a ruler
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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by spacep » 04 Jul 2012, 01:51

"... and the angle of attack will take care of itself."
Reading that comment made me think that this could be a tuning point. More angle would mean faster maneuvers and quicker response. Less angle would give more lifting power. Different angles would make it turn one direction faster than the other.(bad) There would be an angle that gives best battery life at a particular weight.

I think the drone must be rather tolerant of different prop angle of attack or else we would be hearing a lot more about it.

The ideal here would be a table that listed what angle gives what result. Maybe best angle for each all up weight. It would take a lot of testing to build the table. And it would be difficult to make it objective rather than subjective.

It all sounds messy.

And another question. Do we know what the props are made from? I am assuming that your heating the props to near their glass transition temp and letting material memory bring the angle back close to factory. I should be able to look that temp up if I know the material then I can use my IR temp sensor while I heat them to make sure I get a good result.

I will have to google it and report back.

Brian

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by DBS » 04 Jul 2012, 03:13

spacep wrote:"... and the angle of attack will take care of itself."
Reading that comment made me think that this could be a tuning point. More angle would mean faster maneuvers and quicker response. Less angle would give more lifting power.
You're talking as if this is a real r/c heli... we can't "tune" blades that are being flown by firmware... maneuvers are pre-calculated and executed inside performance limits in the firmware... if you set your climb rate at max... lets call it 5ft per second... and then set a really agressive angle on the props for lift... it would still only climb at 5ft per second... adjusting the motor rpms accordingly... maneuverability would stay the same... speed would stay the same... because it's always firmware trying to hit a certain performance spec.... people make that mistake in the forums all the time calling the right joypad "throttle"... we have no throttle... just a way to give firmware a command to climb or fall... go this way or that way...

So... the best we can do is get these props back into a "sweet spot" where the firmware can use them effectively... after being in those plastic bags from shipping there's a good chance they are outside the envelope of what the firmware was programmed to use...

And you mentioned "we would hear a lot more about this"

It's all over these forums every day... "my drone wont hover consistently" (blamed on firmware).... "my drone drops 5 to 10 cm every 10 seconds" (blamed on faulty NAV Board)... "my video has bad jello" (blamed on bent shaft or blade balancing)... "my drone wanders all around the room at 1meter altitude" (blamed on bottom camera) ... "my drone rotates to the left on hover"(blamed on ESC or motor).... "my drone won't fly with that heavy battery and led lights" (blamed on heavy battery and lights)

I guess to summarize... i've had all these problems on my two drone 2.0's and every problem has been solved by flying straightened blades... it's hard for me to tell people "no ... you're wrong... you need to get your blades right" ... the answer is always... "i checked my blades and they look ok" ... so i leave my thread here for people who come around and want the stability they saw in the Parrot videos in the first place... it works... and it's just from trial and error... good enough for plastic blades on a foam toy... it ain't rocket science... and it will not increase performance limits set by firmware or increase lifting capacities set by overall motor HP... but what it will do is make everything work the way it should as intended by the manufacturer because the blades are inside that acceptable tolerance the firmware can deal with without trying to correct for it all the time...

Or somthin like that
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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by spacep » 04 Jul 2012, 15:09

Yes, I imagine the firmware has many limits that would hide the effect of differing prop pitch. Point taken.

But I suspect that often the command from the firmware to the motor is full throttle. The effect of full throttle will depend on the prop. For example full forward tilt to full reverse tilt might be limited by firmware or it might not.

And battery life always depends on efficiency no matter what the firmware is doing. The motors have an efficiency curve. The prop pitch can change where on that curve hovering falls.

What I am wondering here is if there is a prop pitch that is ideal and were only getting to good enough. I will have to make a rig to measure the prop pitch and then develop a technique to vary the pitch with applied heat. I already have the instrumentation to measure the effect on efficiency.

But I have to give you credit. Until this thread I was blaming differences in 2.0 vs 1.0, firmware versions, and manufacturing differences in the motor on the differing battery life I was seeing. Now I know it's probably the props.

Brian

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Re: fix your "warped from shipping" props... the easy way

Post by DBS » 04 Jul 2012, 18:12

I did some switching this morning with three different sets that all work fine (took me hours and hours because i wanted to use the same battery each time)... you are correct about a "tolerance"... it shows up in battery life ... i have two sets that will last 16min 30sec on a VGE 1300mAh battery and the performance is beautiful... i have one set that lasts 19min on that same battery ... did it twice... and the performance is no different... stability is the same... climb rate... maneuvering ... vibration etc... all perfect results... but that battery life is incredible!!! and i don't know if it's just my imagination but the sound is quite different also... more of a steady woosh of clean air flow and less of the helicopter "chopper blade" sound... what i noticed on this set is tracking... the tips of the props where they cut through the air are all the same... if i measure up from a table top to the tip of the leading edge of the blade... the measurement is 6.8cm... and then spin the blade 180° it matches perfect... 6.8cm... and then do all the rest of the blades... perfect... 6.8cm all the way around... also these blades seem to have the most aggressive pitch out of the three sets tested this morning... it's not huge or overly aggressive but a little more than the other two sets and all identical... i'll be interested in getting that angle measurement figured out and then being able to replicate it consistently ... i wish i could make a form like an injection mold that is exactly dead on... throw a prop in there... heat in the oven for a given amount of time at a set temp... cool in the freezer... and presto... perfect props all the time no errors
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